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2007 New Year message by Joh Jun 
12th-Feb-2007 08:36 pm
In the following 2007 New Year's message by John Jun, he greatly emphasizes "making" disciples. He says:

"In Matthew 28:19 Jesus gives disciple making as the supreme command by saying "go and make disciples of all nations". Through today's passage, may we learn firstly, what was the motive of Jesus' command to go and make disciples? (3:1-12), secondly, what sort of people did Jesus choose as his disciples? (ch1,2;3:16-19), thirdly, what was the goal of his disciple making ministry? (3:13-15) Through this message, may God help us to renew God's call as shepherds and missionaries so that we may grow into powerful disciple makers."

UBF leaders proudly claim that to make disciples has always been unique feature of its ministry. But this "make disciples" is at the center of the controvery surrounding UBF ministry. Making disciples in UBF is unbiblical. So I began to wonder why UBF leaders like particularly, or maybe obsessed with, the term "making" disciples.
13th-Feb-2007 03:30 am (UTC)
First of all, the interpretation of Matthew 28:19-21. NIV has Mat 28:19-21 as follows: 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

But King James version has it this way: 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Note that many other English translations use "make". Since the Internet provides such great resources, we can dig further into this. Let's look at Latin version. It says, "euntes ergo docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti." The Latin version uses docete. What does docete mean? Again we turn to the power of the Internet. According to the Latin dictionary at University of Norte Dame, it seems to mean "teach".

This investigation seems to show that the UBF leaders' understanding of Matthew 28:19-21 is very questionable. The biblical meaning of "make" in Mat 28:19 must be investigated further.

One interesting use of "make" appears in Matthew 4:19 when Jesus called his disciples to "make" them fishers of men. The Latin word used here is faciam. It seems to mean make or accomplish.

I suspect that the UBF leaders interpret "make" in Mat 28:19 as faciam in Mat 4:19 instead of docete, which leads them to practice those weird discipling trainings. But I strongly doubt that the UBF leaders including John Jun ever conducted serious biblical research on the term "making" disciples.

All these investigations are just based on what are available on the Internet. So they are subject to modification by those who are trained professionals. Any comments are welcome on the term "make" in Matthew 28:19.
13th-Feb-2007 04:56 am (UTC)
I was curious about how "teach" is used in the Bible and wanted to compare "teach" to Latin words used in the Latin version. Most of the word "teach" in the English translation (NIV) correspond to doce plus different endings. I listed below some of them.

Mat 5:2 docebat
Mat 5:35 docens

Acts 4:18 docerent
Acts 5:42 docentes
Acts 15:1 docebant
Acts 18:1 docens
Rom 12:7 docet
Rom 16:17 doctrinam (teaching): I think we get the word "doctrine" from this latin word

1 Cor 4:17 doceo
Col 3:16 docentes
1 Tim 2:12 docere
1 Tim 3:2 doctorem (teacher)
1 Tim 4:11 doce
1 Tim 6:2 doce
13th-Feb-2007 06:20 am (UTC)
The Latin word faciam seems to be used in Genesis 1:26 when God made man in his own image (faciamus ). It is also used when God called Abram in Gen 12:2 to make him into a great nation (faciamque).

So I think it seems like "making disciples" is in the realm of God's creation power in the sense that God "made" man; God "made" Abram into a great nation; God "made" Peter into a fisher of men. But John Jun and all UBF leaders seem to claim that they themselves can do the job through UBF one-to-one Bible study and UBF "divine" discipline. We know for sure that Dr. Samuel Lee always bragged confidently that he did the job through his unique "divine" discipline and by "any" means.

Nobody can MAKE anybody a disciple! That is I think God's job. But John Jun and UBF leaders don't think so. I think our job is just to teach and leave God's job to God. I think John Jun's problem is that he doesn't seem to know how to distinguish his job from God's job. He seems to think that his job is God's job and God's job is also his job!
13th-Feb-2007 10:41 am (UTC)
human12, you're right here. The actual word in the Greek original is "matheteuo". It is derived from "mathetes" = disciple. The word disciple actually means "learner" (pupil). So the translation "teach" is correct, but "make disciples" is also correct, and many translations use it. Actually you should use the verb "disciple" here, but since today it is unclear what is meant by "discipling", the word "teach" is better. The emphasis is on teaching, like a Rabbi taught his disciples, or a Greek philosopher taught his pupils. This gets also very clear from the following verse that explains and repeats: "... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you". Actually there are two participles used to explain the meaning of this: 1) baptizing, and 2) teaching. The "baptizing" corresponds to *making* the disciples, the teaching corresponds to what you *do* with the disciples.

So I don't think the translation as "make" is wrong, but the problem is how UBF *understands* that "making". In UBF it is *more* than baptizing and teaching (actually baptizing is not even considered important in UBF). In UBF, making means something forceful. Actually they understand it as "train", not as "teach" that's the real problem.

In fact, I heared recently from a Russian UBFer that they are currently organizing a Bible school with the title "Disciples are trained, not born." They got this from a book that is actually called "Disciples are made, not born." But the UBF Koreans claimed that "trained" was the best translation for "made." You can see UBF's Bible twisting very clearly here. First, they create an artificial contradiction between being born again and being trained. In reality, the Bible says both must take place. You need to be born again, and you should be baptized. Then you get some sound teaching and let God work on you in the process of sanctification. But UBF is wiping all that away, saying it is not imporant, and the only important thing is that you need to train (i.e. manipulate, force, supervise, suppress, humiliate etc.) people. The Bible says nowhere that disciples should be trained (except by God directly).

Another problem here is that they take "teaching" as a universal command to every Christian. However, this command has been given to the Apostles in the first place! If you make a transfer to everybody or to yourself, you need to be careful. The Bible says that not many should become teachers (Jam 3), and Jesus also said that we should not be called "teacher" but consider each other as brother. So be careful here! The verse does not say that everybody should be a teacher, much less that the teachers should also be trainers in the sense of UBF.

There is another important thing that UBF get's wrong here. Jesus said "teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." But UBF teaches *more* than Jesus has commanded. The *one* command given by Jesus is that we should love one another. UBF however teaches many additional things like you have to write Sogam, you have to make 1:1 BS, you have to marry according to UBF arrangement etc. etc. And UBF teaches even *differently* from what Jesus has commanded. In Mt 23, Jesus commanded that we should not have a hierarchy, call ourselves teachers and fathers etc. But UBF is practicising and teaching the opposite!

So UBF is clearly not obeying Jesus' world mission command, but follows their own cult strategy.

13th-Feb-2007 02:50 pm (UTC)
Thanks Chris for clarifying many points regarding "making" disciples. It seems that there are a lot of misunderstanding about "making" disciples among UBF leaders. I think that John Jun understands "making" disciples as "training". But the UBF idea of "training" was invented by Dr. Samuel Lee. So I think we need to understand Dr. Samuel Lee's idea of "trainig" or divine discipline. But we all know too well Dr. Samuel Lee's idea of "training", for example walking to Skolie police station, sometime on bare feet.

We can go on and list all kinds of "training" invented by Dr. Samuel Lee. These so called "training" necessarily accompany manipulation, control, and pblic humiliation. As we have seen in Dr. Joe Schafer's testimony, in UBF one is trained to use only Dr. Samuel Lee's style of Bible study, expositional study and topical Bible study is outright rejected as inferior methodology even though majority of pastors enjoy it. So if we put these together, what is considered "training" in UBF is only the "training" invented by Dr. Samuel Lee.

It seems that when John Jun talks about "making" disciples, he probably means "making" disciples only through Dr. Samuel Lee's "training" methodology. So I think we can conclude that UBF "training" comes from Dr. Samuel Lee and not from the Bible.

I think another way to look into "making" disciples might be the difference between Korean mindset of "teaching" and Western mindset of "teaching". I am interested to find out how "teaching" was done during Jesus' time in a typical teacher and student relationship. How was "teaching" done when the aposltes began their ministries after Jesus' ascention? How did "teaching" take place in churches after the apostles?
15th-Feb-2007 03:25 am (UTC)
Part I

but since today it is unclear what is meant by "discipling", the word "teach" is better

I did a little more investigation about the Greek word. Indeed you are right, Chris. "teach" or "instruct" seems to be better here. I found a webpage that provides Greek Bible with Strong's Greek Dictionary. I searched for Matthew 28:19 in "Greek/English Interliner (tr) NT" on www.olivetree.com/bible/. This is what I got:

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Matthew 28:19 poreuqenteV <4198> (5679) {GOING} oun <3767> {THEREFORE} matheteusate <3100> (5657) {DISCIPLE} panta <3956> {ALL} ta <3588> {THE} eqnh <1484> {NATIONS,} baptizonteV <907> (5723) {BAPTIZING} autouV <846> {THEM} eiV <1519> {TO} to <3588> {THE} onoma <3686> {NAME} tou <3588> {OF THE} patroV <3962> {FATHER} kai <2532> {AND} tou <3588> {OF THE} uiou <5207> {SON} kai <2532> {AND} tou <3588> {OF THE} agiou <40> {HOLY} pneumatoV <4151> {SPIRIT;}

Well, when I paste the Greek passage on this page, all greek letters seem to be translated to alphabets. Anyway, the Strong number for the greek word 'matheteusate' is <3100>. Now if I do search again with this Strong number, I get the following:

New Testament Greek Definition:
3100 matheteuo {math-ayt-yoo'-o}
from 3101; TDNT - 4:461,552; v
AV - teach 2, instruct 1, be disciple 1; 4
1) to be a disciple of one
1a) to follow his precepts and instructions
2) to make a disciple
2a) to teach, instruct

It didn't help me much. So I googled again and found this website. It gives more information on the greek word. The greek word 'matheteuo' appears 3 times in Matthew and 1 time in Acts. So I checked each passge...

Continues in Part II...
15th-Feb-2007 03:26 am (UTC)
Part II

Matthew 13:52
(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Matthew 13:52 o <3588> de <1161> {AND HE} eipen <2036> (5627) {SAID} autoiV <846> {TO THEM,} dia <1223> {BECAUSE OF} touto <5124> {THIS} paV <3956> {EVERY} grammateuV <1122> {SCRIBE} matheteuqeiV <3100> (5685) {DISCIPLED} eiV <1519> {INTO} thn <3588> {THE} basileian <932> {KINGDOM} twn <3588> {OF THE} ouranwn <3772> {HEAVENS} omoioV <3664> {LIKE} estin <2076> (5748) {IS} anqrwpw <444> {TO A MAN} oikodespoth <3617> {A MASTER OF A HOUSE,} ostiV <3748> {WHO} ekballei <1544> (5719) {PUTS FORTH} ek <1537> tou <3588> {OUT OF} qhsaurou <2344> autou <846> {HIS TREASURE [THINGS]} kaina <2537> {NEW} kai <2532> {AND} palaia <3820> {OLD.}

52He said to them, "Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old."

Matthew 27:57
(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Matthew 27:57 | oyiaV <3798> de <1161> {AND EVENING} genomenhV <1096> (5637) {BEING COME} hlqen <2064> (5627) {CAME} anqrwpoV <444> {A MAN} plousioV <4145> {RICH} apo <575> {FROM} arimaqaiaV <707> {ARIMATHEA,} tounoma <5122> {BY NAME} iwshf <2501> {JOSEPH,} oV <3739> {WHO} kai <2532> {ALSO} autoV <846> {HIMSELF} ematheteusen <3100> (5656) tw <3588> {WAS DISCIPLED} ihsou <2424> {TO JESUS.}

57As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus.

Acts 14:21
(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Acts 14:21 euaggelisamenoi <2097> (5671) {AND HAVING ANNOUNCED THE GLAD TIDINGS} te <5037> {TO} thn <3588> polin <4172> {THAT} ekeinhn <1565> {CITY,} kai <2532> {AND} matheteusanteV <3100> (5660) {HAVING DISCIPLED} ikanouV <2425> {MANY} upestreyan <5290> (5656) {THEY RETURNED} eiV <1519> thn <3588> {TO} lustran <3082> {LYSTRA} kai <2532> {AND} ikonion <2430> {ICONIUM} kai <2532> {AND} antioceian <490> {ANTIOCH,}

21They preached the good news in that city and won a large number of disciples. Then they returned to Lystra, Iconium and Antioch,

The usage of 'matheteuo' in these verses clearly shows "making" disciples meant "teaching, like a Rabbi taught his disciples, or a Greek philosopher taught his pupils." 'matheteuo' doesn't seem to mean UBF style of "making" disciples through "many additional things like you have to write Sogam, you have to make 1:1 BS, you have to marry according to UBF arrangement etc. etc."

This point seems to be very clear when we read Acts 14:21. Paul preached the Gospel and won many disciples. When we compare this to the Greek text, we can see that "preaching" the Gospel is "making" disciples and we know that Paul was obeying Matthew 28:19 here.

I think John Jun's theology on "making" disciples is far away from the original(?) meaning of "making" disciples. I think there must be more serious investigation into UBF style of "making" disciples. We need to look deeper into how Jesus made disciples and how the Apostles made disciples.
17th-Feb-2007 12:14 am (UTC)
This point seems to be very clear when we read Acts 14:21. Paul preached the Gospel and won many disciples. When we compare this to the Greek text, we can see that "preaching" the Gospel is "making" disciples and we know that Paul was obeying Matthew 28:19 here.

Thanks, human12. That's a really good example. Paul was only a very short time in Derbe (sound like maybe only 1 day) and preached the gospel, and this is described with the same word "discipling". This shows that discipling (making disciples) is not accomplished in a life-long intense, relationship-focused, manipulative, on-to-one (one-over-one) shepherd-sheep setting, but simply by teaching in the way that a scholar teaches.

Please also note that UBF always uses Apostle Paul as the historic example for a UBF *missionary* but Paul operated very differenly: After he had founded a church, he very quickly went to the next place. Actually, he did not even found churches, but preached, and then those who have become believers founded their own churches, elected their own elders etc. Paul did not make himself an elder or leader in these churches. This type of "missionary" who goes into another country in order to become a leader cannot be found in the Bible and I believe not even in history, it is an invention by UBF.

So yes, one of the key points in our criticism of UBF is that they got the idea of "making disciples" completely wrong, not in line with how the Bible understands it. So they are not actually obeying the world mission command, since they don't care whether they obey it correctly. They just do what they want to do, and do not care whether this is really the intention behind the command.
17th-Feb-2007 04:47 am (UTC) - UBF disease
So yes, one of the key points in our criticism of UBF is that they got the idea of "making disciples" completely wrong, not in line with how the Bible understands it.

Chris, I agree with you 100%. UBF has lost the real meaning of "making" disciples in order to preserve UBF culture and UBF theology. "Making" disciples in UBF is carried only to maitain the UBF power structure set up by Dr. Samuel Lee. I was looking further into the Bible and in Acts 6:1-7. This passage very clearly shows how the 12 Apostles obeyed Jesus' command of "making" disciples in Matthew 28:19. I will simply copy and paste the passage since "making" disciples in this passge seems to be so clear.

1In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. 2So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, "It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. 3Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word."
5This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. 6They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.

7So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Just listen to what Peter says, "It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables." I think the Holy Spirit is speaking through Peter here.

What is "discipling" or "making disciples"? John Jun and UBF leaders think that "training" is the most important point in "making disciples". You can see this clearly in John Jun's message. BUT according to Peter, this is WRONG!

The most important point in "making disciples" is "the word of God".

Therefore it would not be right to focus on preserving UBF culture and UBF power structure but neglect "the word of God". For example UBF leaders focus more on UBF style arranged marriage but they neglect "the word of God" on godly and biblical marriage. UBF leaders focus more on making sheep committed to UBF system but they neglect "the word of God" on family values. UBF missionaries rebuke sheep for compromising with their family and rebuke sheep to break up all relationships without any question asked.

The most dangerous thing in UBF is that UBF leaders teach sheep to respect Dr. Samuel Lee's teaching more than any other teachings outside UBF system. They teach their sheep to respect Dr. Samuel Lee's teaching more than "the word of God" itself. UBF is not making disciples of Jesus. UBF is trying to raise up UBF disciples based on Dr. Samuel Lee's teaching. UBF leaders should know that it would not be right to focus on Dr. Samuel Lee's teaching but neglect "the word of God" itself.

When Peter and other Apostles focused more on "the word of God", the number of disciples increased rapidly. This is THE principle of "making" disciples of Jesus: Focus on "the word of God". But John Jun and UBF leaders focus more on "training"! That is WRONG! If you read John Jun's message very carefully (of course, you don't have to), he talks a lot about techniques and strategies to "make disciple" quoting Bible verses here and there. But there is no focus on "the word of God" in his message. It is only full of tricks on "making disciples".

The main focus of "making" disciples is NOT "training" BUT "the word of God". If there is "the word of God", then there is also "making" disciples. I think that is what I see in the Apostles' ministry. UBF must be resotred to "the word of God" from the disease of focusing on "training" invented by Dr. Samuel Lee.
15th-Feb-2007 04:32 am (UTC)
I went over John Jun’s 2007 New Year’s message once again. Then I found something very surprising this time. Throughout his message, he talks all about “making” disciples and quotes Bibles verses here and there to develop his theology on “making” disciples. But if you read carefully (of course, you don’t have to), you will find the most important element in his argument is MISSING.

John Jun talks about all these theories and strategies of “making” disciples. But who is a disciple? I mean, if you don’t know who a disciple is, how can you even begin to talk about “making” a disciple? You need to first define who or what a disciple is. What is a disciple? What is he like? Who can be called a disciple of Jesus? What is a definition of a disciple of Jesus? When can one be called a disciple of Jesus? My point is: What is a disciple? How can you talk about “making” disciple when you don’t know what a disciple is? But amazingly this is what John Jun is doing in his message! No where in his message can one find John Jun’s defining who/what a disciple is. He just talks about “making” one.

What is the definition of a disciple of Jesus? Who is a disciple of Jesus? I think we can find the best definition in John 8:31-32. Jesus says: "To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.""

I think the real disciples of Jesus are those who hold to his teaching. Actually this is Jesus’ definition of his disciple. His disciple follows his teaching. This is so simple. If you follow Jesus’ teaching, your are a disciple of Jesus. If you follow Confucius’ teaching, then you are a disciple of Confucius. If you follow Buddha’s, you are a disciple of Buddha. If you follow Mohamed’s teaching, you are a disciple of Mohamed. If you follow Dr. Samuel Lee’s teaching, you are a disciple of Dr. Samuel Lee. If you follow Oprah’s teaching, you are a disciple of Oprah.

Real disciples of Jesus hold fast to Jesus’ teaching even though doing so means going against the teachings of certain organization. “Making” disciples means helping sheep hold fast to Jesus’ teaching rather than Dr. Samuel Lee’s teaching. “Making” disciples means helping sheep value Jesus’ teaching more than UBF doctrines and practices and UBF culture. But John Jun teaches that sheep must value UBF doctrines and culture more than Jesus’ teaching. Dr. Joe Schafer praised expositional Bible study more than topical Bible study simply because Dr. Samuel Lee used it. Is Dr. Joe Schafer a disciple of Jesus or a disciple of Dr. Samuel Lee? Does Dr. Joe Schafer, an MIT-educated professor, hold to Jesus’ teaching or Dr. Samuel Lee’s teaching? Does he make his sheep follow Jesus’ teaching or follow UBF culture?

Many former UBF members confessed that they had so much difficulties out of self-condemnation thinking that they left God by leaving UBF. Why should this kind self-condemnation happen if UBF indeed helped them follow Jesus’ teaching? I think it happened and is happening because UBF does not teach sheep to follow Jesus’ teaching but UBF own doctrines set up by Dr. Samuel Lee. UBF does not teach Jesus’ teaching. UBF only teaches sheep to sacrifice for UBF system and to conform to UBF culture.

UBF leaders are thief leaders. UBF leaders are not shepherds who teach sheep to follow Jesus’ teaching. UBF leaders do not know biblical definition of disciples of Jesus. I think a good shepherd is the one who knows Jesus’ teaching and helps sheep to hold fast to Jesus’ teaching more than organizational doctrines. A thief is the one who uses Jesus’ teaching to make sheep hold fast to him and his own organization through Sogam, topical study, common life and arranged marriage etc. etc..
15th-Feb-2007 04:43 am (UTC)
There is a very good article about shepherd leaders and thief leaders from Denver Seminary. I will list a few points about theif leaders from the article.

1. "Thief leaders use people for their own benefit…Thief leaders take credit for the work that other people do."

2. "Thief leaders kill enthusiasm and confidence in a group of people when they dominate them for their own selfish purposes."

3. "Thief leaders focus on building up their own reputation, their own power and their own resources."

4. "In their attempts to make everything in the church honor or highlight their accomplishments, these thief leaders greatly diminish the honor of Christ: they steal from Christ, the Head of the Church! More interested in their own agendas and ego needs, they lead their churches away from the purposes of Christ toward a personal agenda that allows them to look good with their peers or people of influence. What greater thievery than to draw more attention to themselves than to Christ?"

5. "The hired hand runs away because he doesn’t really care about what happens to the sheep. There are many hired hands who serve in positions of leadership. For them, leadership is just another job. There is no commitment or sense of ownership when it comes to the people or the group. The hired hand leader doesn’t protect people when they are in
trouble. When the going gets tough, the hired hand leader runs away. As soon as the hired hand leader can find a better job offer, he or she is gone."

I want to add one more thing to 5. A hired hand could be any leader who would care more about organizational doctrines than about the spiritual wellbeing of sheep. When he finds that the sheep would not go with the organizational doctrines, he considers the sheep 'Satan' or 'rebel'.

17th-Feb-2007 12:31 am (UTC)
Again, a very good point, human12. Generally, it can be said that UBF is very much focused on "doing", not on "being". Consequently, the act of "making" a disciple is important for them, not *how* that should be done or *what* a disciple actually is.

One "light bulb moment" for me was when I read the little passage in John 3 titled "John the Baptist's Testimony About Jesus" that comes between UBF's all-time favorites "Nicodemus" and "The Samaritian woman". I never understood what to do with that little passage in the context of UBF. Only after I left UBF, John's words became so clear: "He must become greater; I must become less." That's the words of John the Baptist the great "discipler". Actually it was John the baptist who had John, Andreas and others (indirectly Peter) as his disciples. So what does discipling mean? That you (the "discipler") become less, and Jesus becomes greater, unless you are not necessary any more. But in UBF, as I suddenly recognized it was exactly the opposite! In the beginning, when you're born again, Jesus is so great you do, you would die for Him and the Truth. Then, little by little, Jesus become unimportant and UBF and your shepherd becomes important - what *they* teach and *demand* of you, not what Jesus teaches. They become a replacement of Jesus for you, and everything that has to do with God has now a sticker "UBF" on it (indeed, they equate "God's work" = "UBF" - this is one of the many ways how they manipulate you through clever use of the language). That's also why they are not "good shepherds" as they brag about themselves, but thieves and hired hands, as you have already commented.
16th-Feb-2007 02:44 pm (UTC) - Learning mind in UBF
Learning mind is another recurring theme in UBF. John Jum highlights this "learning mind" in his new year's message.

Second, he chose teachable people.(1:16-20). Jesus called Levi the tax collector. Levi was despised yet when he was called he immediately resigned from his lucrative job and followed Jesus. Like new wineskins, the disciples had a learning mind that meant they quickly received whatever Jesus taught them.

"Learning mind" in UBF is heavily twisted that "learning mind" in UBF is the same as "absolute obedience" toward one's one-to-one shepherd or UBF leaders. So "learning mind" in UBF is absolutely one-sided. In other words, "learning mind" in UBF lacks one of the most important element in learning: Learning to disagree. "Learing mind" in UBF has only one requirement: Learning to agree with one-to-one shepherd or UBF leaders all the time. This kind of "learning mind" cannot help sheep LEARN Jesus' teaching. This kind of "learning mind" nurtures only blind commitment to organizational doctrines and a leader's personal teaching.

A good Bible teacher must help sheep to disagree with his personal teaching. But in Korean mindset this is a very grave sin. A few years ago, a famous professor in Korea declared that he would rather die than his teaching be evaluated by his students.
20th-Feb-2007 10:38 pm (UTC)
Before I left UBF I had an argument with Kevin Jesmer over the meaning of making a disciple. I told him that if his one to one Bible studies helped a student recommit his life to Christ and go back to and participate and serve in his own home church than he [Kevin] was helping to make him a disciple. He vehemently disagreed with me saying that to make a disciple the student would have to commit to one to one, Sunday service and all other ubf functions and grow under him.

Later when this student shared in his testimony his desire to move away after graduation if God was leading him to in his job search, Kevin started to visibly shake with disappointment at the thought.
5th-Mar-2007 05:14 am (UTC) - 65%
John Jun claims the following:

"Jesus lived a common life with his disciples. More than 65% of his disciple training was carried out through common life with them."

How could John Jun come up with this figure "more than 65%? Does anyone know about this figure? Was there any research published about this figure?
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