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Blaming the East 
18th-Aug-2008 08:50 pm
Unfortunately, many ex-UBFers, especially those from the West, tend to project their rightfully negative view of the UBF practices on Korea and on the Confucian countries in general, mainly China where Confucianism takes its roots. Let me suggest that this is as narrow-minded a point of view as the one propagated by the UBF leaders. Theirs is the us-versus-them mentality: if you're not with us, you're against us. Automatically then, as if adhering to the UBF morale they criticize so much, the ex-UBFers are essentially doing the same by saying things like "the Chinese are copycats", "Confucianism lacks inventiveness", "the Chinese regime is not legitimate since it is not a democracy" and the like.

I really hate to have entered a discussion on mostly political and moral issues on China recently, but then again, I did not start making outrightly racist statements like "the Chinese regime is not legitimate" and the like, in the first place. 

Blaming Koreans, Chinese and Confucians proper is probably the easiest way to shift the responsibility for having made one's own mistakes, for one's own inability to deal with the post-exit trauma. However, is it really the best one? All of the ex-UBFers, including my humble self, are the only ones responsible for ones' own lives and their future. I for one won't get down to the level of blaming the not-so-insignificant part of human civilization for my personal problems. 
22nd-Aug-2008 12:47 am (UTC) - Re: what is the point?
Raapje, you wrote:
"Nick, you couldn't have followed the previous discussion because I deliberately erased my own entries out of it. I did this because... well, you ask Mr. Z*** why I did this.

My point was, instead of blaming your own problems on a particular region (like China, Korea etc), get concentrated on the particular cult (UBF) that made your life miserable (and I mean, MY LIFE too). NO, the victims of cult deception are never to be blamed for whatever happened to them, it's the UBF in our case. But what's happening now is many ex-UBF-ers are trying to blame their current situtation on what's happening now in Korea, China and so on. That's just wrong. It's concrete people, living in America, in Russia, in Korea. They are to be held responsible.
Cult mentality has nothing to do with nationality. It's universal, unfortunately it's all-pervasive.
Doing sometihng about that is the most important thing, not blaming nations or cultural mentalities. That's what I mean by personal responsibiloities for ones' lives. NO, no one is responsible for the harm that has been done by the UBF people to them. NO."

Please respect that this forum is not intended for this style of personal attacks, and that we want to protect our identity for several reasons. You're writing with a Nickname, so respect that others do the same.

Concerning your suggestion to Nick, sorry, I cannot read your mind and explain why you deleted all of your postings in the "copycat" thread. Maybe you were embarrassed? Anyway, since my postings were responses to these and make not much sense now in vacuum, I'm going to remove mine as well. As I said, I didn't find that discussion very meaningful anyway, that's why I stopped it.

You claim that many ex UBFers project their negative view of UBF on Eastern countries. I don't believe that is true for most ex UBFers, and I can affirm that it's certainly not true for me. I don't have a negative view of Eastern people, they are people for me just like Western people, good and bad.

It rather seems that you are the one who is projecting some negative views, for whatever reasons.

For instance, if I retract from a discussion that I am tired of and that I think is leading nowhere, you interpret it as I want to "shut your mouth."

Or if I criticize the Chinese government, you call me a racist. Hello? Will I also be an anti-Semite if I criticize the Israeli government?

If I contemplate whether Confucian culture fosters cults or totalist regimes, you conclude that I think *all* Eastern people are cultists or Confucianism is something *essentially* bad.

I made my remarks about the Chinese government only after you had already side-tracked the discussion, it was not the starting point as you suggest.

You claim that I blame "my own problems" on "China and Korea". Where did you get this from anything I posted? Trying to find *explanations* for what has happened is something completely different (and even opposite) to *blaming*. Confucianism is *one* part of the explanation why Samuel Lee had such an easy game in creating his cult, and why UBF has never repented until today. But that does not mean that I'm "blaming" Confucianism or Chinese people in general, or even use them as a "scapegoat" as your fixed idea seems to be (scapegoat for whom? for UBF? or for my "own mistakes in following UBF"?) You're making such a far-fetched and moot point.
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