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Hitler's vision in UBF 
26th-Mar-2009 03:21 am
Dr. Ben Toh said in his message that Hitler was a man of vision. Dr. Ben Toh also said that Dr. King was a man of vision.

"Even a lunatic like Hitler, when he had a vision of a superior German race, was able to shake the world for a brief time."

So according to Dr. Ben Toh, both Dr. King and Hitler were men of vision. I am having a great difficulty in reconciling Dr. King and Hitler on the ground of 'vision'. What is more confusing is that Dr. Ben Toh preaches this notion of 'vision' based on Proverbs 29:18a which says, “Where there is no vision, the people perish…” (KJV). How can one say that Hitler was a man of vision, the vision described in Proverbs 29:18a? I want to say that Hitler's vision was a "toxic" vision. But then based on Dr. Ben Toh's world class message, even a "toxic" vision has a merit that can inspire a lunatic to shake the world for a brief time.

Clearly, Dr. Ben Toh is confused about the merits inherent in God's vision and the derivatized merits of the ideologically and institutionally conditioned vision such as UBF's vision built on Dr. Samuel Lee's wonderful spiritual legacy.
26th-Mar-2009 02:46 pm (UTC) - "Believing in Jesus is not enough, ..."
"... you must have a vision for your life." --Samuel Lee

I had a friendly (non-confrontational) conversation with a UBF person recently. One of the first questions they asked me was "What is your vision for your life?" No questions related to my faith were asked. A new UBF recruit, going through the usual UBF program starting in Genesis, will be asked "What is your vision for your life?" probably long before and much more often than they will hear about Jesus or the gospel. Yes, in UBF, "vision" is paramount, and the gospel is for "old Christians". And by being so involved in a recruit's life and telling them repeatedly what "God's vision" for his/her life ought to be (Ph.D.-shepherd-doctor-marriage candidate-missionary), what should normally be a personal response to God's leading, becomes a man-controlled, man-dictated "vision".
27th-Mar-2009 08:45 am (UTC) - Re: "Believing in Jesus is not enough, ..."
"... you must have a vision for your life." --Samuel Lee

I heard this often times in UBF. UBF system is very tricky. For example, I fully agree that one must have a vision for his life. It is also very biblical that one has a vision. So I think I can say that Dr. Samuel Lee is right that one should have a vision. Now comes the tricky part.

UBF system teaches that one must absolutely accept UBF vision built on Dr. Samuel Lee's beautiful spiritual legacy since it is biblically right that one should have a vision. See how tricky that is?

Since it is right that you should have a vision for your life, you should absolutely have a vision to become a faituful UBF shepherd. So when a sheep is taught in a one-to-one bible study session that he should make a decision of faith to become a UBF shepherd, he can't counter this kind of UBF logic easily because it sounds like the suggestion is based on a biblical principle. But then he is scared to make immediate commitment to the suggestion because something doesn't make sense. So his one-to-one bible teacher will keep on reciting that he should have a vision for his life which is a biblical principle. So the UBF logic is:

1. It is biblically right that you should have a vision.
2. Therefore you should have a vision to become a UBF shepherd.

So if you reject 2 but accept only 1 in UBF, you are regarded as in fact rejecting 1. But the poor sheep in UBF do not have enough spiritual ammunition to counter this kind of UBF theology. So they feel so guilty about rejecting 2 because they are pressed to feel like they are rejecting 1 when they reject 2.

What I have learned in my current church is that I must accept 1 as absolute truth. But whether or not to accept 2 is completely my own personal decision. I have absolute freedom endowned by God either to accept 2 or to reject 2. As long as one gets 1 absolutely correct, God can help him with what to do next. But UBF theology teaches that you can never get 1 right unless you absolutely accept 2 first. Very tricky.
27th-Mar-2009 08:14 pm (UTC)
Universität Bible Fellowship über alles!!!
30th-Mar-2009 08:36 am (UTC)
Dr. Ben Toh talks about vision based on Proverbs 29:18a which says, “Where there is no vision, the people perish…” (KJV). But NIV interprets it this way: “Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; but blessed is he who keeps the law.” And in ESV, it is interpreted as “Where there is no prophetic vision the people) cast off restraint, but blessed is he who keeps the law.” Other interpretations are also very similar to these interpretations. So I think ‘vision’ in Proverbs 29:18 should be interpreted as ‘revelation’ or ‘prophetic vision’ which is given to us by God to help us to keep his law.

Then is this vision from Proverbs 29:18 in a way related to Bill Gates’ vision about his company? Could Bill Gates have received a prophetic revelation similar to that of Proverbs 29:18 that his company’s product would be on every PC? I don’t think so. Therefore, Bill Gates’ vision must have been a different vision that is not like the vision in Proverbs 29:18. Dr. Ben Toh also uses Abraham as an example to talk about God’s vision for an individual. Dr. Ben Toh says that God had great hope and vision for Abraham. To fulfill this vision, God TRAINED Abraham in faith for 25 years.

Wow, he starts with Proverbs 29:18a and along the way he picks up Bill Gates and Abraham and finally arrives at 25 years of TRAINING! It is amazing how he somehow connects all these dots based on the notion of ‘vision’ ultimately arriving at TRAINING.

But when one pays close attention, he can see that the original meaning of ‘vision’ in Proverbs 29:18 evolves into a totally different species, TRAINING! So one can guess how the story would end: Since it is right to have a vision, one must receive UBF training! So when you reject UBF training, you reject God’s vision!

What is a cult? There are largely two classes of cults. One is like UBF. It starts with biblical principles. But its ultimate goal is to make sheep obey and practice its ideological and institutional principles absolutely. This kind of cult is very tricky to spot. The other one starts with non-biblical principles from the beginning and its ultimate goal is again to make sheep totally committed to it. UBF belongs to the former class of cult. We can clearly see this in Dr. Ben Toh’s message.
So how to interpret Proverbs 29:18? I read Matthew Henry’s commentary. He seems to interpret the vision in Proverbs 29:18 as the word of God and I think he is right. I think Proverbs 29:18 does not talk about Bill Gates’ vision and absolutely not Hitler’s vision.

I know there are many Christian ministries out there who interpret ‘vision’ only in terms of success and great achievement. Of course the Bible inspires us to succeed and to achieve many great things. But the vision in Proverbs 29:18 doesn’t seem to be inspiring us in such a way. It could be the case that one succeeds greatly when he keeps the law of God. But even if it is not the case, one is still blessed when he keeps God’s law. So through Proverbs 29:18, one should be inspired to keep God’s law instead of being inspired to have Bill Gates’ vision. Most of all Proverbs 29:18 does not inspire us to receive divine training from Dr. Ben Toh. I think Dr. Ben Toh does not know the meaning of vision in Proverbs 29:18. Dr. Ben Toh’s only desire is to inspire his sheep to work hard for him to establish a big ministry. He is only using Proverbs 29:18 to this end instead of feeding his sheep with Proverbs 29:18 with sincere and prayerful interpretation.
31st-Mar-2009 12:37 am (UTC)
Don't forget Jim Jones' Socialist vision for America. He started out as an effective inner-city minister. He tried to use Christianity,at first, to instill this vision in his followers- we all know how that ended up. He was more successful at ingratiating himself with all the local politicians (with the use of his followers)so that when concerned relatives and ex-members went to there local and state representatives, with allegations of abuse, they looked the other way. It seems like UBF leaders are well on there way to doing this now, as they have already done with Dr. Armstrong, Ruth Tucker and the NEA. In the past, when "international delegates" had visa problems, they would send letters and make calls to Sen. Dick Durban's office, petitioning his help. (I think they were successful most of the time in doing this.)
1st-Apr-2009 02:13 pm (UTC) - doesnt know anything
here is this man shepherd ban toh who is educated as a hematologist. this guy literally doesn't know anything about the Bible, God, history, humanity, integrity, humility, etc. yet he is speaking about anything and everything as if he is the world's number one authority. to pay attention to these people is a disaster to last a whole lifetime. the pattern is repeated all over in every ubf, medical doctor, mathematician, statistician, computer programmer. none of them know anything about God or the Bible. nothing.
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