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Violence in Korean churches 
28th-Aug-2005 11:36 am
I think we have discussed the problem of violence in Korean churches already. Here is another example:

Women Kicked & Punched For 2 Hours For Not Attending Church Enough

Reminds me of how one Korean UBF "missionary" broke into my appartment to get me to the SWS by force and smashed my bike at another occasion. The same missionary had already in Korea kicked a "sheep" with his feet in the UBF center, as he had repented in a sogam.
30th-Aug-2005 10:43 pm (UTC) - They only want to help people
"During the hearing, Kang told the court the group had intended to help Ms Kim but their approaches got out of hand."

This is similar UBF defenders claiming that they only want to being people closer to Jesus.

"He said he knew the actions were wrong and that in future he would deal with people who had problems through the teachings of the Bible."

Again, similar to UBF in blaming the victim. She had problems that needed to be dealt with. She needed to be trained that attending worship service is absolute.

Next time, they will deal with problem people based on the Bible. In other words, the next time they beat up problem people they will quote a scripture to justify themselves in hopes of convincing the victim that God's will was for them to be beaten. Perhaps, they will use more psychological abuse against their victims so as not to leave any easily visable physical bruises.

Does anyone know if any scriptures were used by Lee and other UBF leaders when they beat up members? Joe, was any scripture quoted when you were beaten because your fellowship did not bring enough sheep?
31st-Aug-2005 03:36 am (UTC) - Re: They only want to help people
"He said he knew the actions were wrong and that in future he would deal with people who had problems through the teachings of the Bible."

Yeah, it's hard for me to comprehend the UBF-ish arrogance of this statement by Kang. HE was the one participating in the 2-HOUR beating of a 19-yo woman, and later smashing her CD player. HE's the one who's going to be serving a 9 month jail sentence. But to him, it's OTHER people who have problems. Unbelievable.
31st-Aug-2005 03:10 pm (UTC) - Re: They only want to help people
When one UBF missionary smashed my bike, and he kind of "repented" (probably forced by the leader or his wife whose sheep I was), the final conclusion he came to was that he would pray for me. The same attitude.

Their inner attitude is indeed one of a "helper". Sounds good, but it means that they believe at the same time they themselves need no help and stand above all others. Maybe that's what makes people feel so good in UBF.
31st-Aug-2005 03:45 am (UTC) - Re: They only want to help people
Does anyone know if any scriptures were used by Lee and other UBF leaders when they beat up members? Joe, was any scripture quoted when you were beaten because your fellowship did not bring enough sheep?

The only specific example that comes to mind of violence being justified through the misuse of scripture was Sam Lee using the example of Nehemiah 13:25-28 (Nehemiah beating some men and pulling out their hair).

The biggest excuse used by UBF to justify violence is that violence is more culturally acceptable in Korea.
1st-Sep-2005 04:26 am (UTC) - Re: Nehemiah
Several years ago I ran into Henry Park at UIC. I tried to talk to him about the abortions, beatings, etc. in UBF. In reference to the beatings in UBF, he didn't deny that they occurred. But like Joe said, he talked about Nehemiah beating people and pulling people's hair out. He said different ministries had different styles and that Samuel Lee's style was like Nemehiah's. I also remember Elena Lomahan (my "shepherdess") comparing Samuel Lee to Nehemiah as well. Once when one of Elena's sheep, Kate Blair, missed a Sunday worship service Elena said to me that maybe she should pull out Kate's hair like Nehemiah did. She wasn't laughing or joking when she said it though I never believed she actually meant that she would do it. She was upset that Kate didn't "keep the Sabbath holy".
2nd-Sep-2005 12:55 am (UTC) - Re: Nehemiah
I do not recall any scripture referencing Nehemiah ordering abortions.
12th-Sep-2005 02:20 am (UTC) - Re: Nehemiah
Nehemiah’s beating people and pulling people's hair out can be viewed as his zeal to serve God and to live “absolutely” according to the word of God. It can be also seen as a sign of “powerful” servant of God. But we should not think that he was zealous for God just because he could beat people and could pull their hair. It is simply because it is possible that one can beat others and pull their hair without being zealous for God. Therefore it would be absurd if one says that his style is similar to Nemehiah’s and therefore he is as zealous for God as Nemehiah only on the ground that his style of beating others and pulling others’ hair is similar to Nemehiah’s. If it were so, then anyone who has the “power” to beat and pull hairs would be as zealous for God as Nemehiah. In UBF some people think that they are zealous for God because they can rebuke sheep. But they think that almost all other churches are lukewarm because they do not rebuke their members as often as they should. Should rebuking members be one of the major criteria to determine a church's zeal for God? Should the act of beating people and pulling their hairs be considered a serious factor of making up a great man of God? In some organizations the answer is yes.

I think there could be another view point on Nehemiah’s beating and pulling hairs. Nehemiah was very zealous for God. We can see in the Bible how much he struggled to live according to the word of God. He was a great man of God. No matter how great a man of God he was, he was also like one of us, a helpless sinner. His beating others and pulling their hairs exactly show that. Jesus never did such a thing. If he ever tried Nehemiah’s style, Peter and all other disciples would have become bald just like Buddha’s disciples not long after they followed Jesus. But I guess that he probably had mercy on their hairs. Nehemiah’s weird acts show his weakness rather than a “powerful” servant of God. (We should probably study what it means by being a “powerful” servant of God later. It should not have anything to do with beating others and pulling their hairs.) He was like Moses who was so mad at the Israelites that he struck the rock twice, maybe with unholy style(?) and God was not happy with his style of striking the rock (Numbers 20:9-12). When we read the relevant Bible verses, it seems that Moses didn’t commit any serious sin against God. But God made a clear point about what Moses did by not letting him cross the Jordan. There is no doubt that both Moses and Nehemiah were great men. But they were not perfect. They also needed Jesus just as anyone of us needs him. We all need the forgiveness of our sin.

We can also sympathize with Nehemiah. Just think about how many times everyday we want to beat up rude people and pull their hairs just as Nehemiah did. But we try not to do it because we know that that is not what the Bible encourages us to do. Instead the Bible tells us to come to Jesus and kneel down before him. In that way we need not pull hairs of others and we keep our own hairs safe. Anyway we can fully sympathize with Nehemiah. A good spiritual leader would not encourage his people to pull hairs of each other. Certainly, Nehemiah was not trying to teach us to beat up others and pull their hairs. I think he was trying to say that he was somewhat frustrated at that time and forgot to pray just as we often do.
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