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When UBF leaders say that we had a choice . . .It's like having a gun to your head 
1st-Oct-2005 05:12 pm
When former UBF members accuse UBF leaders of forcing them to attend conferences, write and share testimonies, attend numerous meetings, have their marriage arranged, sell their property to a UBF leader, live in UBF housing, have X number of sheep per week, and submit to various types of training, UBF leaders argue that the choice was ours. They claim they never forced anyone to do anything. Many people who do not understand the dynamic of cults claim that members choose to participate in group activities. This argument misses the real issue; spiritual, emotional, and psychological control of people prevents people from having a choice just as much if not more than having physical control of people.

Example of Physical Control: A man point a gun to my head and demands all of my money. Therefore, I give him my money. When I report this to the police, they will not say, "You had a choice whether or not to give the man your money." The conclusion would be that I was forced to give my money to the man because he had a gun pointed at my head.

In UBF, leaders pointed a spiritual gun to our heads. They told us that if we did not have 1:1 sheep, we are lazy. They told us that if we missed a conference, testimony sharing, worship service, or meeting, that we were selfish and must put God first. They told us that if we did not submit to their training that we were proud and self-centered. They told us that if we failed to do these things, we were not producing fruit for God. They told us that UBF mission was God's calling for our lives and that those who leave UBF mission leave God's mission and abandon God. Further, if we are not producing fruit for God or leave God's mission and have abandoned God, then we must not be saved.

Thus, UBF leaders have no standing to argue that we had a choice. They held a gun to our heads and said that if you do not do what we are told, we are rejecting God's mission, abandoning God, and will be destined for eternity in Hell. What choice is there for one who believes that UBF is God's mission for their lives? Obey us or burn in Hell! We only had a choice after our spiritual eyes were opened to the truth that UBF is a cult that has been abusing us. Then, we could choose to leave and begin to be healed. When someone says that UBF never put a gun to our head, they are wrong. UBF put a gun to our head threatening that we abandon God and our salvation if we reject them. This forced us to obey them. Thank God that we now know UBF's gun only fires blanks.
2nd-Oct-2005 12:57 pm (UTC)
The Jonestown suicides, the Heaven's Gate suicides, the Aum cult subway gassing and many other examples prove without a doubt that cult mind control and cult compulsion exist. If members of cults and cult-like groups can have their choice to live or die taken away, it's not much of stretch to say that cult members can have other life choices taken away from them, too. It's only cult defenders, UBF leaders among them, who can deny that cult mind-control and cult compulsion exist.
3rd-Oct-2005 05:25 am (UTC)
When former UBF members accuse UBF leaders of forcing them to attend conferences, write and share testimonies, attend numerous meetings, have their marriage arranged, sell their property to a UBF leader, live in UBF housing, have X number of sheep per week, and submit to various types of training, UBF leaders argue that the choice was ours. They claim they never forced anyone to do anything.

Also, the UBF leaders' claiming that members are not forced to submit to abusive demands, abusive pressure, abusive and intrusive training, abusive and intrusive "directions," etc. distracts from an important fact, the fact that the demands, pressure, training, "directions" are really abusive. If you claim that the members can choose whether or not to submit to abuse, then why, oh UBF leaders, do you choose to abuse?
4th-Oct-2005 03:50 am (UTC)
"...At this last statement, Samuel Lee became furious and screamed at me: "Do you mean I hurt them?" He seemed losing his temper, and so did I. Then, I pounded the table and shouted back: "How can you dare to say you haven't hurt any when you even commanded abortion!" Samuel Lee immediately threw his chair toward me and the meeting was over. All the members came to know it and missionaries and American shepherds overheard it too because our voices were very high and loud and we were holding our meeting at a room in the center basement where there were many people..."

Is this a true story? Did samuel lee really throw a chair to the person? How could a servant of God(?) do such a thing? Is it also true that in ubf every member should cosider such action by a leader as "spiritual love" rather than "spiritual abuse"? I also heard that in ubf such action by a leader is justified by using the example of Nehemiah's pulling hairs of his people and beating them up for not having absolute attitude toward the word of God. I think in ubf such an abusive action is actually praised as an absolute commitment to God as we know samuel lee is praised as a powerful servant of God among all ubf people all over the world. Anyone who does not support and praise such an action by a leader is considered "humanistic" in ubf. As long as samuel lee is praised by ubf people, they must also know that they are praising his action of "throwing a chair" to a human being. Such an action must be condemned by a church authority. But in ubf such a church authority is absent. samuel lee was the only authority and he is still the only authority in ubf.

We see in the Bible Nehemiah's pulling hairs of his people. But we also see God not letting Moses cross the Jordan river for getting mad at his people when he was leading the people through the desert. The Bible says that Moses blocked the glory of God from being revealed to the people when he was angry with his people. That is why God made a very clear point about it by not letting Moses cross the Jordan river. One of the qualities that a leader should have is "not throwing a chair to his man" because he is mad. We clearly see the quality of samuel lee's leadership in his throwing a chair to his man. I hope that does not represent the quality of ubf leadership...
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6th-Oct-2005 12:59 am (UTC)
In America, UBF still has its first generation leaders and we can see the emergence of second generation leaders, but do you think it will last past this? I don't see how without the continues flow of Korean missionaries and their marriages to American members.
4th-Oct-2005 04:40 pm (UTC)
I think Lee's throwing a chair was a typical bad-temper behavior of a power monger leader when he is questioned and criticized openly. It is absolutely plausbile. They try to control their emotions and look humble and friendly, because they can manipulate people that way and make them believe they are godly people. But when they are questioned and challenged, their real disposition shows up. It will not happen very often, because such authoritarian people are not challenged very often. The members are too cowardly and shy or indoctrinated to believe criticism and speaking the truth is ungodly. Such things as Jimmy Rhee speaking up and speaking about taboo things happened only once every ten years or so. Particularly for Koreans, it is very exceptional to simply speak out the grievances.

There is a certain group of Messianic Jews called "Jews for Jesus" (JFJ) which is accused of similar things as UBF though it may be less extreme. Here is a comment I found in the Internet on one book about JFJ and its leader Mr. Rosen:

The author of this book tries to tell the story of Rosen and the Jews for Jesus. Unfortunately, she often ends up rationalizing Rosen's antisocial and destructive behavior, even such things as his throwing objects at people. She believed Rosen when he told her that these were "very deliberate displays of disapproval," intended to "provide shock value to drive home his point." In my opinion he sounds like a rage-aholic. ... Rosen is quoted as saying, "It's not wrong to hurt people if you are trying to help them." This is a sadistic attitude and one is not surprised to learn that the members of the organization underwent "pain training" to prepare for their street activities. ... Throughout the book the reader is told about how Jews for Jesus are "persecuted" for their faith, even to the point of violent physical attacks. Yet, from the evidence in this book, even though it is downplayed by the author, one could easily infer that the real violence took place not in the streets of NYC at the hands of an angry mob, but in the confines of the Jews for Jesus headquarters in San Francisco. It is sad that this man Rosen is looked upon as a leader and role model by evangelical Christians. In reality he is a gifted salesman, and nothing more.

Power monger leaders in the church behave very similar. Edin Lovas has written a wonderful book about "Power Monger in the Church". Unfortunately that book is not available in English, but it is the one that helped me the most to understand the character of Samuel Lee because it described him perfectly.
5th-Oct-2005 09:34 pm (UTC) - Jews for Jesus
It is sad to hear these things about Jews for Jesus. I always had a good impression of them, at least from what I see them doing. (I even read a book published by them once that they offered for free in a Time magazine ad.) Of course the same thing can be said about UBF. Outwardly, there are many appealing thing about them them. Not surprisingly, UBF has sort of an alliance with Jews for Jesus. They came to UBF once, to speak about the rights of Christian evangelical groups to witness and proselytize people on public property and how to avoid problems on private property. (They have a lot of lawyers among there members.) We had a dinner/ discussion with them at the Leningrad house.
5th-Oct-2005 10:24 pm (UTC) - Re: Jews for Jesus
Yes, that's very sad. Maybe they are not so bad as UBF, but evangelizing Jews is such a subtle task that you can easily do more harm than good. You have to understand that Jews have been persecuted and killed for centuries in the name of the Christian God and under the sign of the cross. So I can understand their resentments. I particularly fear that JfJ does more harm than good. They also have a bad reputation among other Messianic Jews. The problem with Messianic Jews is that some of their leaders believe they can do anything since they are persecuted and disdained by orthodox Jews anyway. It's hard for the members to discern legitimate criticism and suffering for the sake of Jesus. But most of these groups are great. Actually, my wife and I are members of such a church and it is a really healthy one.
5th-Oct-2005 04:12 am (UTC)
There's an old discussion at http://rsqubf.fortunecity.net/discuss/archive/100k4samjr.html that also sheds some light (*) on the process by which a UBF leader takes away the choice to say "no" to their abusive and greedy demands.

* (if you take away the sly rationalizations of the poster calling himself "Anxious in Albuquerque")
5th-Oct-2005 05:55 am (UTC)
If there is the cash transaction of large sum of money ($100,000-$200,000) going on among ubf leaders and members, there is a great possibility of corrupting the witness and testimony in ubf. What could be the nature of the money transaction? Even the Bible warns against the power of money to corrupt honest witness/testimony among God's people. For example, could there be honest biblical witness among the ubf leader who accepted the money and the person who gave the money in the absence of independent auditing procedure outside ubf or even inside ubf? Could a ubf member who has benefitted from such a large amount of money give honest biblical testimony for ubf? Love of money is the root of all evil. Money can corrupt witness. Cosidering many reports against the credibility of ubf, how could one be sure that any testimony from ubf is not corrupted by some behind scene money transaction? It will say a lot of ubf or any organization if one knows the nature of any money transaction going on there.
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