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Wash. UBF 11/6 message by John Jun 
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7th-Nov-2005 08:36 pm (UTC)
Excerpt:

"When we fight with shepherd heart a lion or bear that takes away sheep, we can grow into a warrior of faith who can fight and defeat Goliath. A shepherd’s daily life and training and personal experience are very important. We should get used to a sling and stone like David did. What is our sling and stone we should get used to? We have 1:1 Bible study, testimony writing, prayer (Eph 6:18) and the word of God (Eph6:17). We should exercise daily in slinging these. I pray that we may train ourselves in fighting against sin in ourselves and others through God’s word and prayer and win the victory Satan....

When our young Bible students decide to live as Jesus’ disciples, the first obstacle they often face is persecution from their parents and friends. They are persecuted because they can’t spend as much time with family and friends. Some parents threaten them, saying that they wouldn’t give any spending money if they don’t listen to them. This makes our young shepherds worried. Because of the spiritual battle they had to fight against their parents, they become burdened and fearful. Because of fear, they can’t say a word to their parents and become easily hard hearted. To our graduate student shepherds, their advisors or thesis writing can be another type of Goliath. To our lay shepherds, a demanding boss can be their Goliath. These days, on high school and college campuses, post-modernism, materialism and hedonism are rampant. Not only this, cult religions such as Moonies, Jehovah’s witnesses, Mormons or NEW AGE movement, and religious pluralism are the powerful Goliaths we need to fight against in our spiritual battle."

So basically, he is saying UBF is not a cult but like David fighting Goliath through UBF shepherd life and training. The fact is that UBF is a cult and they are in damage control mode because of all the information on the web about them as they try to gain new recruits and "win the 1:1 battle".
8th-Nov-2005 01:17 am (UTC) - He's hard-core and an idiot.
When our young Bible students decide to live as Jesus’ disciples, the first obstacle they often face is persecution from their parents and friends. They are persecuted because they can’t spend as much time with family and friends. Some parents threaten them, saying that they wouldn’t give any spending money if they don’t listen to them. This makes our young shepherds worried. Because of the spiritual battle they had to fight against their parents, they become burdened and fearful.

...

cult religions such as Moonies, Jehovah’s witnesses, Mormons or NEW AGE movement, and religious pluralism are the powerful Goliaths we need to fight against in our spiritual battle."


"Fighting a 'spiritual' battle" against concerned parents of recruits is exactly what a cult does. But Jun goes on to denounce the Moonies, JWs and Mormons as cults. A classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Jun's also had a major part in over 1000 UBF arranged marriages. But he sees the Moonies as a cult. Or maybe he sees them as competition.

He sounds almost as disconnected from reality as Sam Lee in this message. He apparently got away with a lot in Korea that he won't get away with in America. He could become a public relations disaster for UBF.
13th-Nov-2005 04:04 pm (UTC) - So it's not just a handful of disgruntled former members...
Jun writes: "When our young Bible students decide to live as Jesus’ disciples, the first obstacle they often face is persecution from their parents and friends."

So contrary to what UBF seems to sometimes claim--that UBF's cultic reputation is the result of the actions of just a handful of disgruntled former members--Jun admits that the *real* problem for UBF is what it has always been for 30 years in America, the problem of concerned parents and friends who see negative personality changes in a recruit as they are pulled further and further into UBF.
9th-Dec-2005 03:41 pm (UTC) - Article on How to recognize if you are in a cult
See article: How to recognize if I am in a Cult http://www.letusreason.org/cults.htm

Excerpt:

Are you told not to question what is being taught because the leaders are honest and want the best for you so you must trust them. Has someone replaced your own choices in life.

Are you told not to ask questions why anyone left, your to accept the answers the leaders give you such as: they fell into sin, they didn’t receive correction, they weren’t open or they had a bad heart and didn’t want to be disciples

Do they call those who leave fall away’s and enemies, dogs returning to their own vomit, using the examples of Korah or Judas.

Do they stop you from reading anything negative about themselves calling it spiritual pornography or recommend you not to read it for your own spiritual protection.

Are you told that you must be with their certain church or group to be saved and not by Jesus Christ.

Are they putting down other church’s and building themselves up. Do they sometimes use people as examples of what you are to be doing and others on what you are not to be doing.

Do they recommend for you to be around their people expecting you to be at all the group activities. If not you're spirituality and dedication are questioned.

Do they defend all that they do even though it can be harmful or wrong.

Do they operate by humility or are they arrogant and demand you to obey if you are considering otherwise. Or is it done subtly by manipulating you into obeying by statements such as, real Christians obey their leaders or if you were following Jesus you would see what I’m saying is right. true disciples did not question Jesus.
7th-Nov-2005 09:28 pm (UTC) - anger and violence
the words anger and violence were prevalent in the ubf message. Those words were not put into any kind of context we could expect from normal and healthy Christians. So we should expect an upsurge in angry and violent ubfins.

Tis the season to be angry and violent.
7th-Nov-2005 09:48 pm (UTC) - Re: anger and violence
"the words anger and violence were prevalent in the ubf message."

I noticed that too - it was very disturbing...
7th-Nov-2005 11:15 pm (UTC)
"They are persecuted because they can’t spend as much time with family and friends."

That's one of UBF's blatant wrong teachings. They say as soon as you are a Christian, you cannot spend time with family and friends. But I say, if you are a Christian, whom will you try to evangelize first? Not only with words, but also by showing your changed character? Of course, family and friends! So you need to spend a lot time with them. Who is more important for you to win over for God, your family and friends or some students whom you are told to fish whom you don't even know?

It's ok if Christians do not spend ALL their time with parents and friends. It's ok to not partake in ungodly activities with parents and friends. But it is NOT ok to turn away from parents and friends as soon as you have become a Christian!

The real reason why UBF does not want people to spend time with parents and friends is very simple: UBF is a mind control group, and mind control works best when the people always stay in the group and have as little contact with outsiders as possible. It is the 1st of Lifton's criteria for thought reform. He called it "milieu control." Milieu control is the real reason why UBF missionaries preach this garbage.

I believe that if every Christian would have sincerly tried to win over his family and friends for Christ, the world would have been probably completely evangelized already.
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