?

Log in

No account? Create an account
RSQUBF LiveJournal Community
Romantic feeling in UBF 
11th-Aug-2006 01:14 pm
I have translated some discussions appeared on the Korean UBF website. They are about romantic feeling and UBF-style marriage by faith. The first one was posted on July 29th, 2006 by a person who used name ‘sheep’. It is post 1368 on the website (http://php.ubf.or.kr/bbs/view.php3?id=2658&code=counsel&start=0).
The second was posted on 2006/07/29 (July 29th, 2006) by a person who used name ‘a shepherd’. It is post 1369 on the website (http://php.ubf.or.kr/bbs/view.php3?id=2659&code=counsel&start=0).
The third one was posted on 2006/08/04 (August 4th, 2006) by 이스페너(Spanner Lee?) who is a UBF staff shepherd. This post is numbered 1372 on the website (http://php.ubf.or.kr/bbs/view.php3?id=2680&code=counsel&start=0). While I was translating them, I could clearly see the problems in UBF and misery and suffering that UBF members go through. I decided to post them here so that everyone can see how much suffering the UBF men-made system inflicts on campus students.
Comments 
11th-Aug-2006 06:23 pm (UTC) - Post 1372
Post 1372

답변이 늦어져서 죄송합니다.

'연애감정이 과연 죄인가?' '개개인의 선택의 폭이 좁은 우리 믿음의 결혼이 옳은 것인가?' 등의 여러 질문을 하셨습니다.
이 질문에 대해서 한 사람의 스탭목자로서 답변을 하고자 합니다.
저는 스탭목자로서 저희 센타에서 연애하지 말라, 연애감정을 품고 이성을 보지 말라고 가르칩니다. 연애감정의 그 감정 자체는 죄라고 말할 수 없을 것입니다. 누군가에게 어떤 감정이 생겨날 수 있기 때문입니다. 그러나 연애감정을 계속해서 품고 있고, 허용하는 것은 죄일 수 있다고 분명히 말씀드립니다.
이에 대한 저의 견해를 몇 가지로 정리해서 말씀 드리겠습니다.

첫째, 연애감정과 연애의 문제는 우리 모임의 결혼의 문제와도 깊은 관련이 있습니다. 연애감정이 자연스러운 것이라면, 그 감정대로 연애를 하겠다는 것이고, 연애를 해서 결혼을 하겠다는 말입니까? 우리 모임이 연애를 통해서 결혼하는 모임이 되는 것이 바람직하다는 말씀입니까? 연애를 해서 결혼을 하는 경우라면 연애감정을 긍정적으로 말할 수 있을 것입니다. 연애감정을 갖게 되어야 연애를 할 수 있고, 연애를 해야 결혼을 할 수 있을 것이기 때문입니다. 그러나 우리는 연애가 아니라 하나님의 주권 안에서 믿음으로, 순종함으로 하고자 합니다.

둘째, 연애와 결혼의 문제는 우리 모임의 지향하는 바와 깊은 관련이 있습니다. 우리 모임이 훈련하고 길러내고자 하는 제자상은 주님과 주님이 주신 사명을 위해서는 다른 모든 것을 아낌없이 버릴 수 있는 사람들입니다. 보장된 장래, 안락하고 안일한 삶, 명예나 권세도 배설물처럼 버릴 수 있는 사람들을 기르고자 합니다. 이 정도의 헌신과 결단이 있어야 우리가 꿈꾸는 성서한국과 세계선교의 사명을 감당하는 삶을 살 수 있다고 생각합니다. 결국 그 사람에게서 가장 중요한 것이 무엇이느냐의 문제라고 생각합니다. 어떤 사람에게 있어서 '가장 중요한 것'이, 좀 '덜 중요한 것'을 이끌고 가기 때문입니다. 신자들이 많이 읽는 책 중에 '목적이 이끄는 삶'이라는 책이 있습니다. 어떤 사람이 하나님 안에서 열매를 맺을 수 있으려면 '목적이 이끄는 삶' '사명이 이끄는 삶'을 살아야 가능하다고 봅니다. 그가 가진 사명이 비전이나 직장이나 계획이나 심지어는 결혼까지도 이끌어야 한다고 믿습니다. 사명이 이끄는 삶을 살아가는 사람이라면 결혼도 자신의 사명을 중심으로 할 것입니다. 목숨을 걸어야 할 사명이 있고, 그 사명을 위해서 살아가는 사람은 결혼할 사람의 인간조건이나 개인적인 감정보다는, 그 사람이 과연 나의 사명에 걸맞는 사람인가를 우선하여 볼 것이라고 생각합니다.

셋째, 연애와 연애결혼을 막는 것은 우리 모임과 우리 모임의 역사를 위한 것이라고 하셨는데, 저도 그런 점이 많다고 생각합니다. 많은 지역교회에서 연애와 연애감정을 죄로 보지 않고 적극 권장하는데, 우리 모임에서는 그것을 죄악시 한다면 문제가 있는 것이 아닌가라고 반문하셨죠? 그것은 ubf식의 율법이고 문화가 아니냐고 하는 분이 있었습니다. 지역교회에서는 죄가 아닌 것이 우리 공동체에서는 죄가 될 수 있느냐고 하셨는데, 저는 그럴 수 있다고 생각합니다. 그러면 지역교회가 틀렸거나 우리가 틀렸다는 말이냐고 하실 지 모릅니다. 틀린 것이 아닙니다. 다르기 때문입니다. 공동체의 특성이 다르고, 지향점이 다르기 때문입니다. 그에 따라 문화도 다릅니다. 어떤 모임이든 그 모임의 공동체성을 이루는 중요한 근간이 있습니다. 그것이 그 모임을 통해서 일어나는 하나님의 역사를 좌우하는 것이라면, 그 공동체성을 깨는 것은 죄일 수 있는 것입니다. 선교단체라고 해서 다 같습니까? 지역교회라고 해서 다 같습니까? 제가 아는 지역교회에서는 연애하는 것을 절대적으로 금지하는 곳이 있습니다. 연애를 공개적으로 허용할 경우 제자양성이 어렵고 영적인 분위기를 이루기가 어렵기
때문입니다. 지역교회에서도 교파에 따라서, 목회자의 성향에 따라서 금기시 하는 것이 차이가 있습니다. 예를 들면, 어느 교회에서는 주일예배 후에 청년들이 운동장을 고정적으로 빌려서 축구를 합니다. 제가 있는 지역의 몇 몇의 교회에서 그렇게 합니다. 그런가하면 어느 교회에서는 주일에 축구하는 것은 안식일을 지키는 것이 아니라고 생각합니다. 죄악시하면서 경계합니다. 어느 쪽이 틀리다고 말할 수 없고 다르기 때문이라고 생각합니다. 저는 연애와 연애결혼에 대한 우리의 입장과 교회의 입장이 다른 것은 공동체의 특성과 지향점이 다르기 때문이라고 생각합니다. 그리고 저는 연애와 연애결혼의 문제에 있어서 절대로 양보할 생각이 전혀 없습니다.

넷째, 우리의 믿음의 결혼이 완전하지는 않지만 충분히 아름답고 귀하다고 생각합니다. 어느 제도이든 완전할 수 없을 것입니다. 연애결혼은 행복한 결혼을 위해서 온전한 방법일까요? 자유로운 선택이기 때문에 좋아보이지만 그 안에도 많은 문제가 있는 것이 사실입니다. 우리 모임의 믿음의 결혼도 완전하다고는 말할 수 없을 것입니다. 그러나 충분히 아름답고 귀하다고 생각합니다. 제가 있는 센타의 한 사모님이 동생의 결혼때문에 저에게 조심스럽게 부탁해 온 것이 있습니다. 동생 분이(자매님) 우리 모임에 나오는 것은 부담스러워하는데 결혼은 ubf에서 훈련받은 사람과 하고 싶어하는데, 혹시 ubf를 떠난 사람이라도 소개해 줄 수 없느냐는 것이었습니다. 동생이 볼 때는 ubf에서 훈련받은 남자는 믿을만하고 좋은 사람이라는 생각이 있는 것 같습니다. 그 사모님도 마찬가지 생각입니다. 저는 형제이든, 자매이든, 우리 모임에서 제대로 훈련을 받고 믿음으로 결혼할 수 있는 사람이라면 누구라도 결혼해도 축복이라고 생각합니다.(물론 그렇다고 아무렇게나 결혼을 추진한다는 뜻은 아닙니다. 정말 오랫동안 관찰하고 기도하고 고심합니다.) 저희 센타를 보아도 믿음으로 결혼한 가정들은 전부 하나님께서 정말 가장 좋은 배필을 주셨다고 감사해 합니다. 처음에는 자신의 이상형이 아니어서 실망했지만 믿음으로 결혼했는데 정말 감사하다고 말하는 분도 있습니다. 저는 우리의 믿음의 결혼의 전통이 계속해서 지켜나가야 할 아주 귀한 신앙의 유산이라고 생각합니다.
11th-Aug-2006 06:25 pm (UTC) - Re: Post 1372
English translation on Post 1372

Please forgive me for posting my reply so late life this.

There have been several questions regarding romantic feelings such as “Is romantic feeling sin?” and “Is UBF-style marriage by faith for me since it limits my personal choice?”I want to give answers to these questions with the authority of a UBF staff shepherd. As a UBF staff shepherd, I teach my members not to engage in a romantic relationship and not to look at the opposite sex with romantic feeling. I am not saying romantic feeling itself is sin as it can happen to anyone naturally. However if one continues to hold romantic feeling toward someone or if one intentionally allows romantic feeling in his/her heart, I can clearly say that it is sin. I am going to explain my position by presenting several arguments below.

First, romantic feeling and falling in love with someone could have great impact on the marriage tradition in UBF. When one says that romantic feeling is natural, is he implying that he is going to have a relationship with someone according to his romantic feeling and eventually marry the person? Is he also saying that UBF should encourage marriage based on romantic feeling? If one has romantic feeling toward someone and ultimately marries the person, I say that romantic feeling is perfectly all right. Because in such a case one can marry someone when he falls in love with the person and he can fall in love only when he has romantic feeling toward the person. However, in UBF we do not want to marry someone according to our romantic feeling. We want to marry someone according to God’s sovereignty by faith and obedience.

Second, the matter of romance and marriage is intimately related to what UBF strives for. UBF trainings are aimed at raising up disciples of Jesus who could give up anything without hesitation to serve the LORD and his mission. We want to bring up people who could sacrifice secure future, comfortable and complacent life, fame and power as if they were rubbish. Without this kind of dedication and decision, we do not believe that one can handle a life that should carry out world mission and establish Bible Korea that we envision in UBF. So I think what it all comes down to is what one considers the most important. What is less important in one’s life is driven by what is the most important to him. Many Christians read a book titled “Purpose driven life”. I think that one can bear fruits in God when he lives “purpose driven life” and “mission driven life”. His vision, his work, future plan and even his marriage should be driven by his mission. If he lives a mission-driven life, he would marry based on his mission. If one has a mission worthy of his life and if he lives to carry out that mission, he would not marry based on his personal feeling or his own terms. He would first consider whether or not the person whom he is going to marry is suitable for his mission.

Translation continues...
11th-Aug-2006 06:26 pm (UTC) - Re: Post 1372
Translation on post 1372 continues...

Third, as many of you pointed out, I also think that it might be true that UBF discourages romantic relationship and marriages based on love only for the sake of UBF business. Because UBF consider them sin while many local churches encourage them, some people say that there must be something wrong with UBF. Some of you say that this kind of view is just UBF-style legalism and UBF-style culture. You say that it is not fair that what other local churches consider ok is sin in UBF. But I say it is fair. You might say “How can that be? Either the local churches are wrong or UBF should be wrong.” No. The local churches are not wrong and neither is UBF. We are just different. We have different characteristics. What we try to achieve is different. So our culture is different accordingly. Any ministry has its own defining characteristics. If the defining characteristics determine how God uses the ministry, it is sin to try to get rid of those defining characteristics of the ministry. Are all mission organizations the same? Are all local churches the same? I know one local church who strictly prohibits any type of romantic relationship. They do it because it becomes difficult to raise up disciples and form spiritual environment when romantic relationship is allowed freely. Local churches to some degree prohibit something depending on their denominations and their pastors. For example, the young people of some local churches around my chapter play soccer regularly after Sunday worship service. But other churches discourage their members from playing soccer on Sunday because they think playing soccer is a violation of Sabbath and is sin. We cannot say who is right and who is wrong. They are just different. I think that our position on romantic relationship and marriage based on romantic feeling is different from that of other local churches because the characteristics of UBF and what UBF aims at are different from those of other local churches. Therefore I would not allow romantic relationship and marriages based on romantic feeling in my chapter.

Four, our tradition of marriage by faith is not perfect but is surely beautiful and precious enough. No tradition is perfect. Is marriage based on love a perfect way to have a happy marriage? It looks good because one chooses his spouse freely. But it is also true that there are many problems with it. UBF-style marriage by faith is not perfect. But it is good enough and valuable enough. I know a person who approached me to ask me to find a husband for her sister. Her sister didn’t like to join UBF. But she wanted to marry a man who had been trained in UBF even though he was not currently active in UBF. Maybe she and her sister thought that a man trained in UBF was a good man who could be trusted. I believe that a man or a woman who has received training in UBF and is ready to marry by faith is worthy of marrying any person. (I am not saying anyone on UBF staff would arrange a marriage for anyone to marry anyone. We really pray a lot and observe them with great effort.) In my chapter, everyone who married by faith thanks me saying that God has given him the best spouse. Of course there are some who say they were disappointed at first because their view of ideal marriage partner didn’t match their real marriage partner. But they all have gotten over it and now thank me because they married by faith. I think that we should continue to maintain our tradition of UBF marriage by faith since it is very important spiritual legacy.
12th-Aug-2006 05:06 am (UTC) - Re: Post 1372
The UBF idealogue "staff shepherd" writes: "Therefore I would not allow romantic relationship and marriages based on romantic feeling in my chapter."

What might get lost in the discussion is that this leader (or any typical UBF leader) would not allow a couple to get married even based solely on "mission" in his chapter, if this couple prayed and made this decision on their own. Even a platonic courtship relationship with little-to-no romantic feelings involved would be allowed, if a couple set out to do this of their own initiative. No kind of relationship or marriage would be allowed if it was outside of this UBF leader's control. A student shepherd's response to this defense of "marriage by faith" reveals an understanding of the real motivation behind the "marriage by faith" program, the desire for control over recruits' life decisions. The student asks,"Don’t you think this is kinda cultic?" You bet it is.

Thanks for translating all this. It is really helpful.
12th-Aug-2006 09:33 pm (UTC) - Arranged Marriage
"(I am not saying anyone on UBF staff would arrange a marriage for anyone to marry anyone. We really pray a lot and observe them with great effort.)"

Human12, did the staff shepherd actually use the Korean word for "arrange"? This is amazing considering that in USA UBF, they deny that UBF arranges marriages. I have never heard anyone in USA UBF use the word "arrange" regarding marriage.
12th-Aug-2006 10:03 pm (UTC) - Re: Arranged Marriage
The staff shephed said in Korean "물론 그렇다고 아무렇게나 결혼을 추진한다는 뜻은 아닙니다" near the end of his fourth argument. I will break down this word by word in English.

결혼을 추진한다:

결혼-->marriage
추진-->drive; promotion

추진 is a noun in Korean. You can make it a verb by adding "-하다" to it. So 추진하다 becomes a verb meaning "drive, promote, propel". If you change the suffix "-하다" to "-한다" to make 추진한다 which is present tense form of 추진하다.

So if you interpret what the Korean staff shepherd says, "결혼을 추진한다", word by word, it becomes "promote a marriage; drive a marriage", which is the same as "arrage a marriage" since the marriage is driven by the staff shepherd.

The implication/connotation of the Korean phrase 결혼을 추진한다 litterally means that the staff shepherd drives a marriage with himself in charge of the whole marriage process.
13th-Aug-2006 05:39 am (UTC) - Re: Arranged Marriage
The Korean word, 추진, actually comes from the Chinese word 推進. The Chinese word 推進 is made up with two Chinese letters, 推 and 進. The Chinese characters are similar to the Egyptian hieroglyphs.

means "to push". means "to advance". So 推進 means "to advance by pushing".

But it seems that Koreans use 推進 to mean "advance through pushing very hard" as it is used to describe a rocket launched into air via its propulsion system. I think Koreans use the word 추진(推進) to describe an operation to launch/achieve something by using a method of "pushing" very hard. Many Koreans use 추진(推進) with the meaning of 밀어붙이다 which means "push hard".

"Pushing" very hard here has the image of the pushing power of a rocket propulsion system. The Korean image of 추진(推進) seems to be more associated with shrewd manipulation than with well-disciplined rationality. I think this accurately depicts the Korean style of working with 추진(推進) or 밀어붙이다. You try everything you can to achieve a goal and if nothing works just keep pushing it very hard with 추진(推進). So when the Korean staff shepherd says "결혼을 추진한다", he is sayign that he "pushes a marriage through", which I think is worse than "arranging a marriage".

There are many Koreans who still worship the late dictator Park Jung Hee who was admired for his will power to do 추진(推進). In fact I think he is the one who invented Korean style of "pushing" very hard or 추진(推進). A man who has the quality of this 추진(推進) is highly admired in Korea.

The same Korean staff shepherd, Spener Lee, seems to be very proud that UBF Korean staff shepherds have this quality of 추진(推進). He wrote another post numbered 1374. In the post he says "우리 모임이 강력한 추진력으로 하나님의 역사를 섬겨올 수 있었습니다", which means "UBF could serve the work of God with powerful pushing/driving force until now." In this case 추진력 could be translated as "driving force" with the connotation of "pushing very strongly". 강력한 means "strong; powerful". So he is basically saying that UBF is built on just "pushing very hard". I think he is, without kowing it, admitting that UBF is built on powerful manipulation.
This page was loaded Jun 19th 2019, 11:43 pm GMT.